ATCPro Forums Homepage
Forum Home Forum Home > ATC Pro Forums > General Discussion
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - VFR Traffic
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

VFR Traffic

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Message
MarkHargrove View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 09 Jan 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 114
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkHargrove Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: VFR Traffic
    Posted: 13 Jan 2016 at 1:44am
Is the controller responsible for providing terrain avoidance when flight following is active?  I thought our responsibility was limited to providing separation advisories from other traffic on a "space available" basis (i.e., if we have time).

I'm asking because I'm not quite sure what to do when I have a VFR flight with active flight following underway who is flying at 7500 feet directly into a section with a MVA of 12000 feet. 

Yes, I know that the MVAs provide some buffer -- but on the other hand, I got busted for a huge deduction the other night when I let a VFR flight continue into a section with a MVA higher than its present altitude.   -- and since VFR flights completely disregard any vectors given after a few seconds, and disregard altitude change "suggestions" completely (yeah, yeah, I know they're not under positive control) -- but for heaven's sake, you can't have it both ways in the sim:  either they have to take vectors/altitude changes or you can't ding us for not vectoring them around terrain.

While I'm on the flight following topic, can I tell the requesting flight "unable at this time" ? (I haven't tried to do that yet, just wondering).  In real life, especially when it's busy, it happens all the time.


-M.
Back to Top
mlovetto View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Location: Alabama, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 543
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlovetto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2016 at 1:52am
You are only required to provide MVA clearance to IFR aircraft. VFR aircraft should comply with vectors regardless of their situation, if they don't like it, they should cancel flight following lol. But anyway, VFR aircraft are responsible for their own terrain avoidance (as are IFR flights in VMC technically). So I don't think getting dinged for that is necessary. I, however, have never been dinged for that with a VFR aircraft. I just tell them to "resume own nav" or "proceed on course" and it never deducts anything from me regardless of what they do. 
Back to Top
MarkHargrove View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 09 Jan 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 114
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkHargrove Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 13 Jan 2016 at 2:00am
Hmm.  I'll have to pay more attention to the next time I have a flight following situation.  I had a similar non-ding situation just a little while ago that made me question what had happened a couple of nights ago -- I was almost positive it was a VFR flight I got dinged for, but maybe it wasn't.

Thanks for the quick reply and the information on VFR flights!
Back to Top
RDATC View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 15
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RDATC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2016 at 5:56pm
I'm actually an FAA recurrent training instructor and the rule on vectoring VFR aircraft below the MVA is as follows; If an altitude is assigned no vector may be given, if a vector is given , no altitude may be assigned. There was a huge issue about a year ago in the FAA.  < ="application/x-dap-" id="DAPPlugin" style="visibility: collapse">

Edited by RDATC - 14 Jan 2016 at 6:07pm
RD
FAA ATCS
"Think Twice Before Hesitating"
Back to Top
mlovetto View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Location: Alabama, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 543
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlovetto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Jan 2016 at 7:48pm
That my be but when we have tower releasing conflicting traffic with VFR aircraft flying in the departure corridors with no way to coordinate, it makes life very difficult. So until we can coordinate, we need to vector.
Back to Top
RDATC View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Location: Florida
Status: Offline
Points: 15
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RDATC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2016 at 12:19am
I'm not disagreeing , the issue is the Tower creating ties.  < ="application/x-dap-" id="DAPPlugin" style="visibility: collapse">
RD
FAA ATCS
"Think Twice Before Hesitating"
Back to Top
mlovetto View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Location: Alabama, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 543
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlovetto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2016 at 12:25am
http://puu.sh/mwhb1/0c394f08c4.png


things like this happening is super annoying. I'm not even controlling that sector and I feel bad for the east final controller.
Back to Top
Elusive Napkin View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Status: Offline
Points: 74
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elusive Napkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 15 Jan 2016 at 2:30pm
There's a lot of weirdness that takes place in the SEA sectors as well. The satellite sectors seem to have not much consistency with their vectoring, and BFI arrivals can be particularly intriguing. 
Back to Top
IMacDuff View Drop Down
Member
Member


Joined: 08 Jan 2016
Location: SLC, Utah
Status: Offline
Points: 21
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote IMacDuff Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2016 at 7:50pm
There's something I don't understand about the VFR traffic... when the flight strip comes up it shows a beacon code of 1200 but when it shows up on radar the target is correctly associated with it's call sign and flight plan. Wouldn't the aircraft have to be squawking a discrete code for the radar to associate the target with a flight plan and wouldn't that code be on the flight strip?
Back to Top
mlovetto View Drop Down
Senior Member
Senior Member


Joined: 03 Jan 2016
Location: Alabama, USA.
Status: Offline
Points: 543
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlovetto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24 Jan 2016 at 9:07pm
In real life, yes. The controller would enter the callsign into the computer and press the beacon function and it would assign a code for that callsign. The controller would relay that code to the pilot and then it would associate.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 11.10
Copyright ©2001-2017 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.094 seconds.