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cullyeh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cullyeh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2016 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by Tom@FlagMountain Tom@FlagMountain wrote:

[QUOTE=mlovetto],
<SNIP> The pilots stop following their route upon entering your sector because there are no routes inside the airspace.  Your job to control them to the airport.

Well, I guess you could argue we all invested in this sim to control the aircraft.  I guess for some aircraft, I could see your point.  All the same, for any (including GA) aircraft on an IFR flight plan, their clearance limit was most likely the destination airport, so I would sort of expect them to be at least doing something like heading direct destination, rather than some heading way off course.  Sure, we can control them, too....  Nevertheless, just two additional comments on that:

1)  It does seem off that F10-D reveals a particular course line they should be following, but they never make that first turn to finish that course.  That's what strikes me as their potentially being something amiss.

2) aircraft on a STAR really should be following that.  They used to.  That's the one that really caught me off guard (aviation pun :-).  Is the idea now that we clear them for the STAR when they arrive in sector?  I have not tested that, but will...

Thanks!
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mlovetto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote mlovetto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 16 Apr 2016 at 10:43pm
Even a VFR aircraft has a destination. It may be the airport they departed from or another airport but we always self navigate. If I depart Birmingham VFR to Atlanta, I still have a route to my destination airport. Whether its along an airway, or direct, I still have a route. I may end the planned portion at a waypoint (Fix, NAVAID, or GPS waypoint) but I'll still fly to that point and depart that point direct to the airport. ATC does not just give me a vector to leave the airway unless it's for traffic avoidance or something else. The will expect me to self navigate to my destination. 

 So it does not matter the flight plan, entering airspace arbitrarily and expecting vectors is not how it's done. By the way, if I enter Birmingham's airspace outside of the Class C, I don't even have to talk to them if I'm VFR... so how would I navigate? Call and ask them for vectors? Please... they would talk to me like I was an idiot: "vector me to bessemer please, I know that's not the primary airport but I can't find it on my own." If you're lost, that's different, but we're assuming being lost isn't a thing in the sim. You only receive VFR vectors if participating in flight following or are being sequenced into the primary airport. But like I said, I can't figure out who is IFR or VFR because we don't have anything on the strip telling us that and they don't fly at VFR cruising altitudes, they're in the flight levels or they file for even or odd altitudes without a + 500. You will also receive vectors if you're IFR and being vectored for the approach, but they're not going to vector you along airways, that's just not how it works. 

 I know that there are limits to the sim and if it's not possible to do it, then it's not possible. I'm just relaying real world information that I teach to pilots every day. This is how it works....
Michael Lovetto - FAA CPL; CFI; CFII
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote MarkHargrove Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2016 at 12:49am
I concur with everything Michael has pointed out about the behaviors of VFR aircraft. Unless they're entering or transiting Class B or C airspace they don't have to talk to the TRACON at all and it makes no sense to require us to vector them.

We're all vested in making this sim be the best that it can be -- we're vocal because of that.  If there are things that you just can't simulate correctly yet, or maybe can't simulate correctly ever -- we get that.   It's far better to say, "OK, yeah, we get that, but it's hard to do and won't happen for a while"  than to say "it's supposed to work that way in real life" (especially when it isn't).
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mlovetto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlovetto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2016 at 2:00am
Thank you sir.
Michael Lovetto - FAA CPL; CFI; CFII
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Tom@FlagMountain View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom@FlagMountain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2016 at 1:16pm
There may be an issue with the PD keyboard command.  Investigating.
 
Regards
Tom Murdock
Flag Mountain Software
Tom Murdock
Flag Mountain Software
ATCpro Project Team
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cullyeh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cullyeh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 17 Apr 2016 at 8:59pm
Originally posted by cullyeh cullyeh wrote:


BUG REPORT UPDATE:
I know you're working on it... whether this helps or not, here it is.  I had it happen again, but slightly different play-out....

Working ABQ S East flow 2340z friday scenario:  
At 0053z had 2 aircraft on frequency ... one doing it's own thing heading to a departure fix n2159M and another arrival on downwind for Rwy 3 AMF1296.  Gave AMF a d/m 9K and the aircraft stopped... datatags still blinking; clock still running; pause, IDS, ETVS, etc buttons all work; it's now 20 mins later on the clock with no movement.


This happened again, within 3 minutes of it happening before.  (this time at 0056z instead of 0053z - again on Friday).  No overflights.  No idea what "issue" this belongs to.

There has to be something to this.  All aircraft movement just stops.

Thanks!
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cullyeh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote cullyeh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 18 Apr 2016 at 9:48pm
Originally posted by cullyeh cullyeh wrote:

Originally posted by cullyeh cullyeh wrote:


BUG REPORT UPDATE:
I know you're working on it... whether this helps or not, here it is.  I had it happen again, but slightly different play-out....

Working ABQ S East flow 2340z friday scenario:  
At 0053z had 2 aircraft on frequency ... one doing it's own thing heading to a departure fix n2159M and another arrival on downwind for Rwy 3 AMF1296.  Gave AMF a d/m 9K and the aircraft stopped... datatags still blinking; clock still running; pause, IDS, ETVS, etc buttons all work; it's now 20 mins later on the clock with no movement.


This happened again, within 3 minutes of it happening before.  (this time at 0056z instead of 0053z - again on Friday).  No overflights.  No idea what "issue" this belongs to.

There has to be something to this.  All aircraft movement just stops.

Thanks!

This  happened now a 3rd (reported) time, but this time a different day/scenario.  ABQ scenario Tuesday 2000 z - failure occurred at 0056z again.  Same as last night running the Monday scenario.  Creepy Wink

Again, don't know what it was, but no overflights.  Just a guy climbing out of double eagle.
Thanks! 
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