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HILEY STAR (KMIA)

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Category: ATC Pro Forums
Forum Name: ATC Pro Official Support
Forum Description: Official Support for ATC Pro
URL: http://atcpro.flight1.net/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=710
Printed Date: 23 Mar 2019 at 2:33pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 11.10 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: HILEY STAR (KMIA)
Posted By: kruel
Subject: HILEY STAR (KMIA)
Date Posted: 11 Dec 2018 at 9:26pm
I've been trying to figure out the HILEY.FIVE STAR since I bought this game over a year ago. Yesterday, some forum users encouraged me to crack open the game files. It looks like there's no refernce to HILEY in the MIA facilities DynamicRouteImpl file. Does this mean that someone forgot to add the STAR to the game?

Can I add it myself? Seems like I should be able to tinker with the database and do it, but I'd appreciate some guidance. Per the route published on the ATC-Pro support page, the pertinent part of the east landing route is HILEY.FIVE runway  (16000) - KAINS (8000) - CIMBA (4000) - JESSS (3000) - RUBOE.  I presume the waypoints are all programmed, it would just be a function of stringing the two points together as legs. I don't understand how we get a series of legs programmed into a single command for the STAR, though. Like I said, I'd appreciate any guidance.



Replies:
Posted By: hnorgaar
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 1:44am
Hi there

Send me an email to hnorgaar@gmail.com and I can send you the text to copy and paste into your DynamicRouteImpl file for KMIA.

The HILEY5 are in the game and is programmed in the SQL lite database in the data folder, named planning, but does not have the altitude programmed. This can be done easily if you know how to do that.

Install  https://sqlitebrowser.org/" rel="nofollow - https://sqlitebrowser.org/
Open the before mentioned database and goto browse data tab, choose terminalLegs from table and in search terminalID put 30856, which is HILEY5. The wptID is referring to the waypoint and have to be looked up first to translate the waypoints names into wptID you want to change in the waypoints table. In terminalLegs you will find a row named alt and have to follow this rule, 16000, 08000, 04000, 03000 and can add A or B for above or below as 08000A

Hope this can help you

Henrik


Posted By: kruel
Date Posted: 12 Dec 2018 at 9:57pm

Hi Henrik, thanks for the tips. I went into the Planning.db and added altitudes as you suggested. I made some adjustments to make sure that the traffic stays within the Miami north approach sector throughout the route. Basically, everyone arrives at 16,000 and stays there until after HILEY, then descends to the floor of my airspace as it moves closer to the runway. I copied my changes below. Then, I took a stab at editing the DynamicRouteImpl file to see if I could make the route work. I’m by no means a programmer, and it should come as no surprise that my edits failed. I’m looking forward to your suggestions for getting the route working again. Please feel free to post here, or email me back (I sent you a message this evening). Thanks again for all your help!

 

My edits to TerminalID 30856 in Terminal Legs:

JORAY Transition

JORAY (25394) 18000

OSOGY (26049) 16000

AMZAR (24239) 16000

STAPL (26488) 16000

MILSY (25854) 16000

BOYUR (24438) 16000

HILEY (25197) 16000

 

OMN Transition

OMN (183574) 18000

MALET (25789) 18000

PCMAN (26087) 16000

MLB (183554) 16000

TRV (183611) 16000

PHORD (26137) 16000

SMUGS (26440) 16000

MORGA (25890) 16000

PBI (183580) 16000

BTOGA (24466) 16000

HILEY (25197) 16000

 

ZPF Transition

ZPF (184359) 16000

STAPL (26488) 16000

MILSY (25854) 16000

BOYUR (24438) 16000

HILEY (25197) 16000

 

ALL

HILEY (25197) 16000

KAINS (25436) 08000

CIMBA (24593) 08000

JESSS (25359) 06000

RUBOE (26328) 04000

 

My edits to DynamicRouteImpl:

 

hiley [five] [ arrival ] [joray] [transition] [runway] [[zero] eight left] [transition] {out="HILEY5.JORAY.08L.1";}

|

hiley [five] [ arrival ] [joray] [transition] [runway] [[zero] eight right] [transition] {out="HILEY5.JORAY.08R.1";}

|

hiley [five] [ arrival ] [joray] [transition] [runway] [[zero] niner] [transition] {out="HILEY5.JORAY.09.1";}

|

hiley [five] [ arrival ] [ormond] [transition] [runway] [[zero] eight left] [transition] {out="HILEY5.OMN.08L.1";}

|

hiley [five] [ arrival ] [ormond] [transition] [runway] [[zero] eight right] [transition] {out="HILEY5.OMN.08R.1";}

|

hiley [five] [ arrival ] [ormond] [transition] [runway] [[zero] niner] [transition] {out="HILEY5.OMN.09.1";}

|

hiley [five] [ arrival ] [freeport] [transition] [runway] [[zero] eight left] [transition] {out="HILEY5.ZPF.08L.1";}

|

hiley [five] [ arrival ] [freeport] [transition] [runway] [[zero] eight right] [transition] {out="HILEY5.ZPF.08R.1";}

|

hiley [five] [ arrival ] [freeport] [transition] [runway] [[zero] niner] [transition] {out="HILEY5.ZPF.09.1";}

|

 



Posted By: hnorgaar
Date Posted: 23 Dec 2018 at 2:41pm
The last step to make it work is in the same place you edited the altitudes to change the rows with ALL in the Transition row to RW08L, (it will work for all runways even you only have 08L there, as it is the same path for all runways), and the Type row from 5 to 6, and fire up ATCPRO use descend via Hiley5


Henrik


Posted By: JimOrlando
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2018 at 8:20am
Hi guys. I made all the alterations above and still no joy. The SR is recognizing it just fine, but no response from pilots and no descending on the arrival. I changed the altitudes in planning.db, changed the transition to "RW08L" and type to 6 and added the above text to DynamicRouteImpl.txt. Did I miss something?


Posted By: hnorgaar
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2018 at 1:36pm
It works fine for me so make sure you put RW08L in transition, not 08L as I wrote first, acknowledge the plane with "DAL54 radar contact, expect rwy 8L", when inside your airspace or shortly before "DAL54 descend via Hiley5"

Should work, let me know how it goes


Posted By: Jsabot
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2018 at 6:17pm
Originally posted by hnorgaar hnorgaar wrote:

It works fine for me so make sure you put RW08L in transition, not 08L as I wrote first, acknowledge the plane with "DAL54 radar contact, expect rwy 8L", when inside your airspace or shortly before "DAL54 descend via Hiley5"

Should work, let me know how it goes


If it works for you, why not upload your db file to show us? or send a screenshot


Posted By: hnorgaar
Date Posted: 30 Dec 2018 at 11:36pm
Here is my 2 databases shared on Dropbox, feel free to give it a try

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kapgpb4l2fooflo/AACcOe3Uhf7BMyG5h2qqCkEia?dl=0" rel="nofollow - https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kapgpb4l2fooflo/AACcOe3Uhf7BMyG5h2qqCkEia?dl=0

Henrik


Posted By: kruel
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2018 at 2:55am
It finally works! Thanks for sharing the databases, it works for me.

"AAL123 expect runway eight left"
acknowledges
"AAL123 descend via hiley eight left transition"
acknowledges

Still need to edit the waypoint altitudes if you want to keep the descent within the N airspace, otherwise they'll drop below 8k at KAINS, but that's an easy task.

Thanks again Henrik!


Posted By: bill3810
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2018 at 1:56pm
I did the edit as well but for the Scott2 arrival and after scott they turn to go back to the beginning of the arrival lol.


Posted By: JimOrlando
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2018 at 3:59pm
OK, it "works" but... let me first say that I've never found myself that busy working just North Approach that I couldn't manually descend a/c, which I prefer anyway. However, the reason this looked good is when I combine sectors things sometimes ramp up and this would be handy. That being said, I find two major problems that make it not worth implementing for now. Maybe if I, or someone else, has time to tweak it in the future it would be worth it. 1) The procedure becomes mandatory. That is, it used to be that the a/c would fly the horizontal portion of the arrival and I just had to manage the vertical. Now, if I don't give the arrival, a/c depart HILEY direct to KMIA. 2) The a/c bust airspace. That is, obviously, unacceptable.

So, I have gone back to the original configuration for now. BTW, you can give the instruction on first contact. In fact, when a/c checked on without stating the ATIS I was able to give "...information <.> is current, Miami altimeter is <..>, resume normal speed, expect runway 8L, descend via the HILEY5 arrival, runway 8L transition." all in one broadcast and it worked fine.


Posted By: bill3810
Date Posted: 31 Dec 2018 at 8:26pm
You wouldn't get a descend via clearance on this Arrival Anyway.  The crossing restrictions here are expects and there is only one constraint, the rest are just minimum segment altitudes on the arrival not a crossing altitude.  The expect is just for planning purposes so to keep it more realistic for me I just leave it as is.   However it does reduce the workload a bit especially dealing with AI pilots.


Posted By: bill3810
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 4:05am
Every time I give these guys descend via they turn off of the arrival and head all the way back to the beginning of the arrival, is there something I can do to fix this.  Happening in ATL now.

EDIT:  So firstly oddly enough Center doesn't have them on the Arrival so first you have to tell them, join the Dirty2 Arrival Rwy8L transition then descend them via with the 8L transition so they stay on the right route and follow the altitudes.  I know some of you have modified it so that the transition is not required, any can help?

Probably will just wait on the next release seems a bit buggy and unpredictable.



Posted By: hnorgaar
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 5:15am
That is happening because when you change to 6 for waypoints which are before where they  actually make contact with you. 6 is what tells them to be able to use the descend via and join command. That wasnt a problem with Hiley 5, but is for Sscot2 and others. I have changed that in another version which is now updated on in the dropbox link and have included SSCOT2 as well, redownload this and let me know how this work out. And no to your question, you shouldnt give the join command

Henrik


Posted By: bill3810
Date Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 5:16pm
Thanks for the information and files, I will give them a try and let you know.



Posted By: bill3810
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2019 at 2:18am
Another question I see you have included the Dynamic Routes file for Miami.  The next questions which is not associated with the Hiley 5 but I think is in general related is in Atlanta on the Dirty2 arrival.  Aircraft coming from the northwest which are all assigned the Dirty2 half don't follow it and some that do go to the south side of the airport even though they have been assigned a runway that would require them to fly to the north side on the arrival.

Database is unmodified and after all of the 5's the 6's terminate to a runway so this should work but they still turn away and go to first fix of arrival if I don't say join the dirty 2 and i'm not sure why.  I'm not sure why they aren't on the arrival in the first place, they hit the first fix of the arrival in my airspace and fly present heading.

When I assign them the Dirty 2 they fly the arrival but again take the transition for the wrong runway, not sure if this is something in the DB or in the Code of the simulation.


Posted By: hnorgaar
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2019 at 2:40am
Hi again, that have to do with what I tried to explain before, the only way to make them follow 6 is to give the command "descend via" or, but not sure "join", and is probably an error in the game, 5 and 6 is not connected automatically apparently or maybe by choice because of different route for different runways and therefore need the command. Thats why we can make a "fake" 6 for other approaches and make it work with the dynamic file for the verbal commands available.

Henrik


Posted By: bill3810
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2019 at 5:10am
Ok thanks I will tinker with what you did for Miami and try and figure it out with Atlanta, I see others have it working great.  I'm guessing I need to modify the Dynamic file for each session and not give them the option.  Meaning if I"m working 1L (NE Feeder) and vectoring for 8 L i'll only make 2 arrivals available and 1 runway so that might fix it.  Will tinker, thanks again for your help.  Time to play and get this figured out.


Posted By: bill3810
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2019 at 5:55am
So with the DB stock ATL has 6's for the runways so the descend via works.  However if I assign that to them they turn back to intercept the transition fix way out on the arrival based on their flight plan.  The way around that is this command "direct Dirty, Descend via the Dirty 2" and boom it works.  So the direct cancels the transition and they descend via at that point and stay on route.

Now HAARY is a decision point, depending on the runway assignment West flow they turn south East flow the continue SW.  Before I modified the Dynamic route they always went stupid at harry and turn either south or followed a heading, but with 8L only available they are behaving.  

I also made 9L available in the Dynamic file as a test, but even after I assigned 9L as their approach it still shows 8L in their data tag so i'm missing something here.

I think Andrew mentioned on a video of his that if you give a descend via and no runway transition they will default to the first available arrival runway combination in the dynamic file.  I've tried assigning the "descend via runway zero niner left transition" hoping this would switch them to the other runway but they are not responding to that.

However , at this point it's a much more enjoyable experience and much more realistic.  I flew into Atlanta on and off for 8 years and I don't really remember getting any descend via's but we did shoot the ILS PRM's all the time and usually didn't get a runway assignment until with approach which is pretty normal.  Now that the AI are actually following the route it makes managing a large amount of traffic much easier.

EDIT:  Seem to have made pretty good progress.  Only thing now is when they depart SNEVE on the DIRTY2 with descend via they descend and crash into the ground on their own.  it is a TF and 6 is the type with a track of 275 but they don't maintain 6000 which is what I set SNEVE at, they cross at 6000 but they don't stay, they fly 275 and descend into the ground.


Posted By: hnorgaar
Date Posted: 02 Jan 2019 at 2:08pm
I guess that have to do with arrival runways per the game is 08L, 09R, 10, and departure are 8R and 9L, and therefore wont accept 9L as arrival runway


Posted By: bill3810
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2019 at 3:29am
Originally posted by hnorgaar hnorgaar wrote:

I guess that have to do with arrival runways per the game is 08L, 09R, 10, and departure are 8R and 9L, and therefore wont accept 9L as arrival runway


I bet you're right I got so busy changing numbers and playing with files I didn't even think about that.  I'll look again with the correct runway.

Also I tried your DB files and they still turn away to the Transition fix if I give them descend via on the SCOTT2 however if I give them Direct the next fix then Descend via it works every time. 

A small price to pay for some organization.  Again on the Scott you would just give them Cross this fix at so n so but for Atlanta it's nice.  I have them descending via and making their crossing restrictions with speed constraints i set at different fixes as well so that's nice.

Still can't figure out how to get them to stay at their last assigned altitude once they pass the last fix on the arrival, they just descend into the ground.

Thanks for your help.


Posted By: hnorgaar
Date Posted: 03 Jan 2019 at 11:13am
Hi again Bill

Just my 2 cents, I havent seen any turn off SSCOT, so 2 things comes to my mind
1. Give the command "descend via sscot2", just that, dont use arrival
2. Give the command inside your airspace, not before

You can allways check the path they are on with "F10", "D", "slew tag" FYI

Henrik



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