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ATCpro Build 21

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Category: ATC Pro Forums
Forum Name: ATC Pro Official Support
Forum Description: Official Support for ATC Pro
URL: http://atcpro.flight1.net/forums/forum_posts.asp?TID=635
Printed Date: 03 Aug 2021 at 2:52am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.04 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: ATCpro Build 21
Posted By: Tom@FlagMountain
Subject: ATCpro Build 21
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 12:08pm
All:
 
ATCpro Build #21 has been completed, and is now in beta testing.  I will have more information on "what's new" later today or tomorrow.  We are still working on some issues  that will be included in the official release.  This early build addresses the known bugs, an updated speech recognition engine that handles pauses and background noise better, and some database tweaks that provide a better experience.
 
Still to come are an updated flight schedule, a new facility, and a few other goodies.
 
We have a couple of openings for beta testers.  If you would like to test Build 21, and have the time to commit to it, please send me a private message.
 
No, I don't have an official release date yet Wink
 
Regards


-------------
Tom Murdock
Flag Mountain Software
ATCpro Project Team



Replies:
Posted By: gwa
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 1:26pm
Tom, this build seems stable so far, testing KSEA

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Gene Anderson


Posted By: RyanGeckler
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 7:33pm
I've sent a PM.

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Ryan Geckler
FAA ATCS Miami Center


Posted By: Jsabot
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 7:34pm
Also sent a pm


Posted By: andrewatc
Date Posted: 07 Jan 2018 at 9:03pm
Tom, this is fantastic news. Looking forward to hearing more details about what's included. :)

-------------
SW3, SW4 Captain in CYYC


Posted By: Sim-Deck
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 8:48am
Great news! 

-------------
Based in the UK. Passion for simulations. ATC-Flight-Combat Sims. Runner, Kayaker, Mountain Biker.


Posted By: Sath_99
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 9:14am
PM sent.


Posted By: crbascott
Date Posted: 08 Jan 2018 at 1:22pm
Originally posted by Tom@FlagMountain Tom@FlagMountain wrote:

 
Still to come are an updated flight schedule, a new facility, and a few other goodies.
 

Is the "still to come" Build #21 or Build #22, etc.?

Thanks!


Posted By: Tom@FlagMountain
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 1:16pm
Updated flight schedule and assorted tweaks, Build 21.
New facility, probably 22
 
Regards


-------------
Tom Murdock
Flag Mountain Software
ATCpro Project Team


Posted By: Jsabot
Date Posted: 09 Jan 2018 at 1:19pm
Thanks for the update Tom! I’m looking forward to helping you out with the Beta testing of Build 21. I’ve got plenty of free time to devote to testing it.

Thanks
Jordan


Posted By: calou02800
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2018 at 6:35am
Hello Tom,
Super simulation I love
career mode will it be in the update because sometimes I stay 1:00 I finished at 95% and I go up no grade !!!!.
Super job of simulator very sharp.
thank you very much
pascal


Posted By: Tom@FlagMountain
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2018 at 9:11am
Looking into this issue
 
Regards


-------------
Tom Murdock
Flag Mountain Software
ATCpro Project Team


Posted By: andrewatc
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2018 at 9:23am
Tom, would you be able to comment on what tweaks and database updates are included so far?
 
Does KSEA traffic work better?


-------------
SW3, SW4 Captain in CYYC


Posted By: mlovetto
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2018 at 9:55am
SEA works much better as does Atlanta. The database tweet at SEA was that when aircraft were departing the 16’s they were being assigned a DP for 34 departures. This was causing departure to climb aircraft through approach airspace. Now they go around the outside nicely. Atlanta stops its departures at 10k now to keep them under your airspace. When you work ATL departure though you have to stop them at 10k. “Climb via the SID” still causes them to bust airspace.

At SEA I still get the occasional aircraft that leaves the localizer though. All the aircraft I’ve seen at ATL on final actually land now, no more flying off the screen. MCI still needs a lot of work though.

-------------
Michael Lovetto - FAA CPL; CFI; CFII


Posted By: andrewatc
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2018 at 11:13am
That's great news, thanks Michael. Do arrivals come from all gates? How about satellite flights, do they still bust airspace? Those were the biggest issues with KSEA I think.

-------------
SW3, SW4 Captain in CYYC


Posted By: mlovetto
Date Posted: 10 Jan 2018 at 11:15am
I believe the do. I need to play more SEA to confirm. There were just a few things I wanted to check and I’ll add that to my list.

-------------
Michael Lovetto - FAA CPL; CFI; CFII


Posted By: andrewatc
Date Posted: 11 Jan 2018 at 1:55pm

Awesome! SEA will be a hit once it's working properly.



-------------
SW3, SW4 Captain in CYYC


Posted By: ndsamuelson
Date Posted: 16 Jan 2018 at 10:27pm
I also PM'd you. I probably missed my chance to test it out, but if not, I'm game. I've been away for a couple weeks. Home now though!


Posted By: hnorgaar
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 1:57pm
Hi there 
Update rate I dont know, but to make a custom schedule I can help you and to change call signs as well, PM me. Vector is possible as when you assign them a course they will follow that and leave the STAR or SID


Posted By: rcatcret
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 6:59pm
Honorgaar, thanks I would appreciate your help. It would be great if there were an option for the old style radar/TRACON. That is what I was used to all those years in ATC.


Posted By: mlovetto
Date Posted: 18 Jan 2018 at 7:01pm
You can set the radar mode to “multi” instead of “fused” and it gives the update rate you’re talking about.

-------------
Michael Lovetto - FAA CPL; CFI; CFII


Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 25 Jan 2018 at 5:50pm
Originally posted by Tom@FlagMountain Tom@FlagMountain wrote:

<snip>
an updated speech recognition engine that handles pauses and background noise better
<snip>
 

When you say an updated speech recognition engine, does that mean a newer version from the same vendor, or did you license an entirely different engine? Just curious, cause I'm an IT geek and we find that sort of stuff interesting.

Been away for a while (cause real life jumped up and bit me), but excited that there is a new version coming soonish now that real life has calmed down and stopped biting me.



Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2018 at 9:14am
Any updates on when the release might be? 


Posted By: pilot_ngb
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2018 at 1:59pm
I'm looking forward to the update. I had to give up on the old version as SR was not working for me. Since getting a new MIC its working much better. Hope to see build 21 very soon.


-------------
FAA Private Pilot. Logged ASEL/ASES hours in US (AZ, OR, CA & WA), UK and Ireland. Passion for #ATC #Aviation #Hockey #Golf.


Posted By: Ryan
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2018 at 2:16pm
Hello all, yes new version release date should be mentioned. Can people maybe tell me which headset(not too expensive) works great with the current SR? Appreciate it. I would like to see in the future maybe 1 or 2 international facilities like heathrow or Johannesburg or dubai. Also when will the conference results be released? Take care

-------------
Rman


Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2018 at 2:47pm
Originally posted by Ryan Ryan wrote:

Hello all, yes new version release date should be mentioned. Can people maybe tell me which headset(not too expensive) works great with the current SR? Appreciate it. I would like to see in the future maybe 1 or 2 international facilities like heathrow or Johannesburg or dubai. Also when will the conference results be released? Take care

Heathrow would be nice, for absolutely no other reason then I would love to say the call sign "Speedbird". A lot. 

That's just the coolest damn call sign ever.



Posted By: pilot_ngb
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2018 at 3:18pm
Originally posted by Ryan Ryan wrote:

Hello all, yes new version release date should be mentioned. Can people maybe tell me which headset(not too expensive) works great with the current SR? 



I bought Astro A40's. Sadly not cheap. Has really improved my SR hit rate.


-------------
FAA Private Pilot. Logged ASEL/ASES hours in US (AZ, OR, CA & WA), UK and Ireland. Passion for #ATC #Aviation #Hockey #Golf.


Posted By: Ryan
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2018 at 3:21pm
Thanks pilot, haha yea true stooge same with me. Is that a usb connection or an analog one?

-------------
Rman


Posted By: pilot_ngb
Date Posted: 29 Jan 2018 at 5:35pm
3.5mm jack x2.


-------------
FAA Private Pilot. Logged ASEL/ASES hours in US (AZ, OR, CA & WA), UK and Ireland. Passion for #ATC #Aviation #Hockey #Golf.


Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 31 Jan 2018 at 8:49pm
/sigh


Posted By: Ryan
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2018 at 1:15pm
Hello all atcs,

Is there perhaps an expected release date for the 21 version?

Regards

-------------
Rman


Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 06 Feb 2018 at 1:44pm
Originally posted by Ryan Ryan wrote:

Hello all atcs,

Is there perhaps an expected release date for the 21 version?

Regards

Shoot. I've been watching this thread for a week, waiting on a response, and saw a new post and got so excited. So, pull up a chair and join the club waiting for some response. Pretty soon, you can have my chair. I dislike being ignored.

I mean, I asked a question regarding the new speech engine 12 days ago and <crickets>. I mean, it is in beta, I'm pretty sure there is some information regarding the engine for speech recognition. I can understand they don't have a release date, that's fine. If I have to deal with an entirely new engine as opposed to an upgraded version of the existing one, I'd like to know to expect that. I finally got this one working pretty good. 



Posted By: Ryan
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2018 at 11:57am
Hi

Yes all waiting eagerly, i also wish to get more details regarding SR and all other tweaks. I am sure tom and admin will keep us updated when all their testing and work is finished. The product must go through rigorous tests before new update released. This sim will eventually become the best atc sim ever its super close to the real thing just the tower view you get from a real atc and the telephone missing haha other than that all features are realistic! I am from south africa and this is the best sim ever for atc. Even atc2 and tower! Doesn't come close. Keep up the good works and updates

Regards

-------------
Rman


Posted By: Tom@FlagMountain
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2018 at 12:38pm
Stooge:
 
We are deep in the beta for v21.
 
You will not have to do any additional work to make good use of the new SR engine.  The new version has been tweaked a bit, especially to ignore background noise, pauses during an utterance, and things like "um", 'uh" etc.
 
We appreciate your patience.
 
Regards


-------------
Tom Murdock
Flag Mountain Software
ATCpro Project Team


Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2018 at 12:58pm
Originally posted by Tom@FlagMountain Tom@FlagMountain wrote:

Stooge:
 
We are deep in the beta for v21.
 
You will not have to do any additional work to make good use of the new SR engine.  The new version has been tweaked a bit, especially to ignore background noise, pauses during an utterance, and things like "um", 'uh" etc.
 
We appreciate your patience.
 
Regards

What about when I say "uhm .. oh hell what was that command again" will it filter that out, too? LOL

I am looking forward to it handling pauses in my commands though. I do that from time to time. Well, a lot of the time actually.

Thanks for the update.



Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2018 at 1:01pm
PS -- Make no mistake about my love for the simulation when I sound impatient. I try not to be, but I rather enjoy this simulation, and am eager to see the new version and what has been updated, fixed, etc. If I did not care, I would not check the forum for an update 12 or more times a day. Yes, I'm serious it is at least that often.



Posted By: Tom@FlagMountain
Date Posted: 07 Feb 2018 at 6:11pm
OCB

-------------
Tom Murdock
Flag Mountain Software
ATCpro Project Team


Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 26 Feb 2018 at 4:41pm
Any updates on the status of the beta? 


Posted By: Tom@FlagMountain
Date Posted: 27 Feb 2018 at 3:37pm
Beta is still being actively worked, but just got some new bugs for KMCI. 
 
Regards
 


-------------
Tom Murdock
Flag Mountain Software
ATCpro Project Team


Posted By: TheIrish822
Date Posted: 07 May 2018 at 1:48pm
Update on the new build? Been over 2 months since last update. Thanks.


Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 19 May 2018 at 3:02am
I give up.



Posted By: VenturaGuy101
Date Posted: 19 May 2018 at 4:25pm
@Stooge Don't loose faith.  Build 21 will be released.  It is just taking longer than expected.  At least Tom and Dave is hopefully trying to kill as many bugs as possible to make this the best release possible.  

I was kind of hoping that the release was delayed since the next sector is almost done but it was already stated that the new sector will be Build 22.  I just hope that this release will be the most robust so far.  It just will be nice to see a few comments every other week or so just stating where development stands.  Besides the forum seems a bit dead these days.


Posted By: VenturaGuy101
Date Posted: 20 May 2018 at 5:16pm
@Tom - Is there a list of the fixes for build 21?  I ran into some issues at ABQ where planes were taking off at 160 degrees which does not make sense for east flow.  The planes should take off at 80 degrees or so if taking off from runway 8.  I also had a plane that took off E98 who's data tag never turned white.  It stayed green.  I got dinged because I did not had off the aircraft.  I tried numerous times hitting 'C' and slew and it would not hand off to Center.  I think I read on some thread here that the descend and maintain zero has been fixed.  It would be nice to see what if fixed so I don't submit duplicate bug reports.  The Build 20 bug list looks old at this point and doesn't  show what was reported and fixed.

Thanks


Posted By: Salad
Date Posted: 20 May 2018 at 5:59pm
Hi Guys,

Looking forward to updates as well as I'm sure we all are. I still play it almost every night (love arguing with the instructor Wink) Pretty much 100% Miami North Departures; quieter times combined with North Approach.

VenturaGuy, as for your "green" targets, try "radar contact" when you see them and they should turn white. Then you will be able to hand off to centre as normal.

Graham


Posted By: Sath_99
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 4:52am
Originally posted by Stooge Stooge wrote:

I give up.


Don't give up !
It just takes some time .....


Posted By: crbascott
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 10:33am
Yep, it just takes time ... it's only been 4 1/2 months since the build was announced complete and just 2 years since the last substantial (IMO) build was released (build 19, May 2016). 

So, based on this product history and the fact that Tom hasn't even visited the forum in a month - these are all reasons for optimism.   

Sorry for the sarcasm, but I find it very difficult to think this product has a positive future based on recent events. 


Posted By: VenturaGuy101
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 1:31pm
Craig, you have some valid points.  You could add that the social media accounts have also gone silent, to the list.  Twitter stopped Feb 14, 2017.  Facebook last post was Nov 15, 2017.  I only found this simulator at the end of last year and I bought it when I saw that a new build was being released.  But as you stated that is over 4.5 months ago.  


Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 21 May 2018 at 2:21pm
A few things

  1. As was pointed out Tom has not been online in a month. It is not even that he has not posted, but per his profile he has not even logged on to the forums.
  2. If his profile is accurate, he is 76 years old. I'm concerned that something happened to him. Not because I want an update, but I am generally concerned for his well being. This is out of character for him.
  3. Where is Dave? I would think he could at least give us some insight on the state of things. 

I often point out the following observation: The most aggravating part of a traffic jam for most people is not knowing WHY there is a traffic jam. 

Right now we are in the dark, with no idea what is happening both for the update and just in general. Metaphorically, we are in a traffic jam. The chief liaison we had was Tom and he has stopped even logging in since the last week in April (per his profile).

PS -- I would not give social media much of a worry. After Facebook last year changed the entire way people can be reached (a business you like won't even be pushed to your feed ... unless the business in question pays for advertising), most small businesses stopped worrying about it too much as it lost the value of reaching their customers.

I had a retail store I owned. When I closed it down (it failed; tough business to be in) I updated Facebook to say we were out of business. Facebook then sent me a note that I could reach more of my customers by paying to "boost the post" ... Yes, to Facebook view, I should spend some money to announce my failure. LOL


Posted By: pinback
Date Posted: 22 May 2018 at 12:04pm
I just came here after realizing I'd forgotten this was a thing.

Now I remember why I'd forgotten this was a thing.

Put me down in the "I give up" category.



Posted By: Tom@FlagMountain
Date Posted: 23 May 2018 at 8:21am
Gentlemen:
 
Reports of my demise have been greatly exaggerated.  Amazing some of the conclusions y'all can jump to.
Dunno where you have been getting your information, but it has been about a week, not a month, since my last visit to the forum.  I have had some distractions.
As I stated in a previous post, there have been some extenuating circumstances occur which have delayed the upcoming release.  I am unable to discuss this matter further.
We thought we had the release just about ready, and then discovered an issue with KMCI that set us back a bit.  That work should be complete within about a week or so, after which we will do the final packaging on the release. 
Please remain patient while we complete this process.  The release is coming, and soon.
 
Regards


-------------
Tom Murdock
Flag Mountain Software
ATCpro Project Team


Posted By: calou02800
Date Posted: 23 May 2018 at 10:24am
Thank you I'm looking forward to the new version
Regard
Pascal


Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 25 May 2018 at 5:33pm
Originally posted by Tom@FlagMountain Tom@FlagMountain wrote:

Gentlemen:
 
Reports of my demise have been greatly exaggerated.  Amazing some of the conclusions y'all can jump to.
Dunno where you have been getting your information, but it has been about a week, not a month, since my last visit to the forum.  I have had some distractions.
As I stated in a previous post, there have been some extenuating circumstances occur which have delayed the upcoming release.  I am unable to discuss this matter further.
We thought we had the release just about ready, and then discovered an issue with KMCI that set us back a bit.  That work should be complete within about a week or so, after which we will do the final packaging on the release. 
Please remain patient while we complete this process.  The release is coming, and soon.
 
Regards

When I looked at your member profile it had your last visit time as being late April. Now it shows 8 hours, so not sure why it was reporting the wrong time. Glad you are OK. 

I say I give up, but I really didn't. I enjoy geeking out and having people in the house snicker at me while I am rattling off ATC commands too much. 

You're a small team, so I understand that things can happen in various areas (personal, business, whatever) that leave you with no resource to fill the gap. No need to explain the details of those circumstances; I don't expect that.

So, I'll just keep checking back every few days. Consider it a compliment that despite my frustration I still am hanging in there. 


Posted By: Mike.Kilo
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2018 at 4:56pm
Any news on the update? It's been more than a month since last message.


Posted By: pinback
Date Posted: 27 Jun 2018 at 4:57pm
Whoa, that's the weirdest thing of the day.  I popped on here randomly for the first time in a month and a half, didn't see anything, and this post showed up five minutes later.  GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!!


Posted By: Olmbas
Date Posted: 29 Jun 2018 at 11:03am
I used to check out the forum almost every day, but nowI have totally lost faith in this project, sadly because ATC pro have a hug potential.

I will not be shocked if the next thing we hear from the devs is that ATC pro updates are canceled.
Wish you all a great summer


Posted By: rcatcret
Date Posted: 30 Jun 2018 at 9:29am
An ARTS version of this game would be nice!


Posted By: Tom@FlagMountain
Date Posted: 15 Jul 2018 at 12:25pm
Taking much longer than we had expected, for a variety of reasons, but an update is still in the works.  Soon.  Stay Tuned.

Tom


-------------
Tom Murdock
Flag Mountain Software
ATCpro Project Team


Posted By: Sath_99
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 6:32am
Originally posted by Tom@FlagMountain Tom@FlagMountain wrote:

Taking much longer than we had expected, for a variety of reasons, but an update is still in the works.  Soon.  Stay Tuned.

Tom

Good news ! Thumbs Up

The forum is very, very quiet nowadays. 
Hopefully the update will change this !




Posted By: Slewball
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 12:15pm
Is there any chance of allowing users to build their own sectors in future updates?

Slewball


Posted By: crbascott
Date Posted: 19 Jul 2018 at 5:48pm
Originally posted by Sath_99 Sath_99 wrote:


Good news ! Thumbs Up


If you scroll back a little Tom told us soon back in May too. 

I'm in "I'll believe when I see it" mode now.


Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 2:17pm
Here is my concern at this point. The first of the year it was announce that it was going to beta. From what I can tell based on some of the posts shortly after that announcement is that some users are in the beta. That is fast approaching 8 months ago. Now, I get that there are real world issues, and it is a small team, etc. 

My question is this: Why not widen the beta to more users? At this point it has taken so long to get the version out that any bug that is found is going to be exponentially magnified because you'll see "we waited this long and it is full of bugs?". It would, IMHO, be better to open up the beta and help mitigate the "why does it have all of these bugs" crowd.

I've been in software / IT for ... 25 years now (God I feel old; I am old) and I have yet to see a single product be bug free. In fact, whenever I'm involved with a project that has "no bugs" I get nervous, because I know there is a bug somewhere and it will be a massive one when it shows up.

So, I expect the bugs will be there, but the user base patience has been stretched thin, they are going to expect damn near impossible results if you release it as "completed" rather than "wider beta testing". Which, really I'd recommend anyway, due to the sheer volume of difference in PCs and OSs, there is no way anyone could test for them all...

Just my $0.02 on the matter. 


Posted By: cullyeh
Date Posted: 10 Aug 2018 at 11:25pm
Is there something wrong with the update?

It's been a long time since an update on the update.  Of course, you may all just be tired of people asking, but... as others have done I just checked Tom's (Tom@flagmountain) last login and it was 7/15.  Almost a month ago now. (Don't worry Tom, I know you're not dead : )

Even more concerning is that we haven't heard from our star poster (and beta tester) Mike Lovetto (mlovetto) in a really long time.  It used to be daily.  Even the facebook and twitter feeds are dead since 2017 (I think... I'm not great at FB and Twitter).

Huh.  Wonder what's up.


Posted By: hnorgaar
Date Posted: 19 Aug 2018 at 12:34pm
Who doesnt wonder here!!!


Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 20 Aug 2018 at 6:50pm
Radar contact lost. 


Posted By: VenturaGuy101
Date Posted: 22 Aug 2018 at 10:26pm
Waiting for the FAA Next Gen Air Traffic System maybe?


Posted By: Tom@FlagMountain
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2018 at 8:19pm
Gentlemen:

I now have permission to explain the delay in the Version 21 release.  The wife of one of our development team members, Tom Main, was diagnosed with breast cancer in March.  As I am sure you can imagine, this completely disrupted the family.  Tom had to run the household (3 daughters), support Audra, and hold it all together.  Obviously working on the ATCpro release took second priority.  The rule is:  Family First.  The treatment process, while ultimately successful, was overwhelming and extremely stressful.

The best news is that the cancer has been eliminated, and her prognosis is excellent.  In my latest conversation with Tom this week, he said that he is now at a point where he can again begin to focus on ATCpro.  Our objective is to have Version 21 available by the end of September.  

I know we have not provided much information for a long time, but I trust that you can understand why.

Stay tuned.  Teaser alert:  there might be an extra little freebie announcement in the next day or so.

I will try to provide more information regarding version 21 as it becomes available.

We appreciate your understanding and patience.

Regards

Tom





-------------
Tom Murdock
Flag Mountain Software
ATCpro Project Team


Posted By: brodie4598
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2018 at 9:08pm
F--k Cancer and best wishes to the family. Very happy to hear the treatments were successful. 


Posted By: Salad
Date Posted: 05 Sep 2018 at 10:24pm
Good news all around Tom!!

Of course family and health come first, totally understandable. Best wishes to Tom Main and family.


Posted By: Sath_99
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2018 at 2:19am
Of course: Family first !


Posted By: JimOrlando
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2018 at 7:09am
Great news all the way around...worth waiting for.


Posted By: Stooge
Date Posted: 06 Sep 2018 at 11:05am
My mom and sister both had breast cancer. It's tough. My mother especially so since it was about 30 years ago and, at least where we lived, you did not discuss things like cancer especially breast cancer; it was treated almost as if it was shameful. This was before the days of Susan G. Komen. The world has come a long way in that regard, and in the treatment process as well. So, I'm happy to hear that all is well, and don't worry we obviously aren't going anywhere. LOL



Posted By: Jsabot
Date Posted: 23 Oct 2018 at 2:02pm
What's the deal with the build? I thought last month you said it was coming within a few weeks?

If its beta testers you need, I know I was one of the first people to volunteer for beta testing but you didnt invite me to help.

If its programmers you need, maybe someone is willing to volunteer their time to help you guys out.

It would be really cool to see at least something, and if it's not perfect, then you can do another update. Just an idea.

Thanks


Posted By: Jsabot
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 12:08pm
Originally posted by Tom@FlagMountain Tom@FlagMountain wrote:

  Our objective is to have Version 21 available by the end of September. 



Almost a month since my last post, still no comment devs? We just want an update.


Posted By: atcitizen
Date Posted: 14 Nov 2018 at 6:26pm
Yes an update would be nice. You have a great product and we are eager to see how it has improved.


Posted By: brodie4598
Date Posted: 15 Nov 2018 at 1:01am
Yeah do you need more money? Is that what it is? I'll give you more money if the new version actually works. Honestly probably half of us would which is kind of sad. 




Posted By: Jsabot
Date Posted: 17 Nov 2018 at 12:16am
Guys want to start a gofundme for ATCPro?


Posted By: Tom@FlagMountain
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 9:28am
Well, we obviously didn't get a release out at the end of September.  

The team member who is working on the Kansas City airspace fixes has suffered a back injury and is now facing surgery to fuse a couple of vertebrae.  Couldn't have come at a worse time.  We are trying to figure out alternatives.  I sincerely apologize for the extended delay, but it is out of my control.

One question:  The Kansas City airspace has some known problems.  Would you be OK with a release that addressed all the bugs EXCEPT Kansas City?

Regards

Tom


-------------
Tom Murdock
Flag Mountain Software
ATCpro Project Team


Posted By: JimOrlando
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 9:30am
I would be OK with that.


Posted By: hnorgaar
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 10:31am
Sure that will be ok for me too

Henrik


Posted By: Sath_99
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 11:08am
Originally posted by Tom@FlagMountain Tom@FlagMountain wrote:

One question:  The Kansas City airspace has some known problems.  Would you be OK with a release that addressed all the bugs EXCEPT Kansas City?

Fine with me.


Posted By: Alpha117
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 11:53am
Good here



Posted By: VenturaGuy101
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 11:59am
Tom, I was really waiting for the KMCI fixes as I really like that airport.  But with so many issues with the other airports, I think releasing build 21 with the game update and fixes for the other 5 zones would be appropriate and very much appreciated.  I can wait for build 22 to fix KMCI.


Posted By: falcone88
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 8:37pm
Definitely eager to check out the new voice input handling (plus fixes at ABQ) so a release sounds good to me, too!


Posted By: CaptnJack
Date Posted: 18 Nov 2018 at 9:26pm
absolutely and affirmative!   Release it!  back burner the KMCI and I hope for a speedy recovery for the bad back.


-------------
Common sense is genius in laymen clothes. A.E.


Posted By: billofbong
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 2:03pm
Send it


Posted By: Aryto
Date Posted: 19 Nov 2018 at 2:58pm
Just chipping in with a "yes please."


Posted By: Mike.Kilo
Date Posted: 20 Nov 2018 at 3:39pm
YES YES YES


Posted By: VenturaGuy101
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 5:00pm
Tom,I hope that we might get a list of fixes for build 21 sometime soon.  I was testing some things in the current Build 20 and came across some departure issues.  I am not sure if these have been addressed in Build 21 or not.

Setup:  Wednesday at 07:15 with east flow.
Flight:  DAL1452:  Schedule:  M88 KABQ to KATL.
Departure assigned GRZZZ TWO
Tower gives command "DAL1452 fly heading 300, runway 08, cleared for takeoff"
The planes takes off and immediately turns left right at the end of the runway.  According to the ABQ procedures that Dave made available:  Takeoff Runway 08:  Climb heading 079 degrees to 5860 and then direct to TYILR.  


Flight:  SWA2604  Schedule:  73G KABQ to KPHX
Departure Assigned:  MNZNO TWO
Tower gives command:  "SWA2604 fly heading 180, runway 08, cleared for takeoff."
The plane takes off and immediately turns right to 180 which is taking it right to the flight path for runway 12.
According to the ABQ Proceedures:  Takeoff Runway 08:  Climb heading 079 degrees to 5860, then turn right direct to DLSOL.
An incursion will occur as the Tower gives the command: "DUSTY21 fly heading 180, runway 12, cleared for takeoff."

You can see the green plane DUSTY21 right behind SWA2604.  Had the plane flew at 079 degrees and then trun toward DLSOL there would be more spacing.

In this test DYSTY21 was directed to turn right and avoided the incursion with SWA2604.  But it appears that the sim is not following the published procedures and the planes are having to 'S' courses to get back on the departure procedure.


Posted By: VenturaGuy101
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2018 at 10:07pm
... And I forgot the most important part:  To Dave, Tom and the rest of the ATCPro Team,  Have a Happy Thanksgiving.


Posted By: apd1004
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2018 at 6:18am
Happy Black Friday and belated Thanksgiving.

Just recently getting back into ATC Pro after a long hiatus so pardon my ignorance. 

I see this scenario often at ABQ, I've just gotten used to sending them to YUGLU to get back on the departure instead of worrying about DLSOL, but I agree it would be nice to have departing aircraft follow facility procedures and head for DLSOL on their own, it would definitely increase the immersion factor of the sim and decrease the amount of immediate attention we have to pay to a departing flight. I've also noticed that the military aircraft don't always want to follow the departure procedures and instead I usually end up having to direct them straight to the departure waypoint.

I only know enough about it to be dangerous with it, but is there any way we can edit this ourselves similar to editing flights? I've done a quick scan of some of the .db files and couldn't find anything that shows where this comes from. I'm thinking maybe tower commands for departing aircraft are hard coded and not in a user editable file?


Posted By: VenturaGuy101
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2018 at 12:09pm
I have been looking into the data that are contained in the database files.  I was looking for the same thing.  A couple of things I found
For the SWA2604 the Schedule data shows that it is going from KABQ to KPHX.  Looking through the Route (Universal.db)  Shows that it should use the RDRNR TWO departure but the game selected the MNZNO TWO.  After checking Flightradar24 this morning SWA1389 which flies from KABQ to KPHX used the RDRNR TWO departure.  So it appears most of the tables are not used directly.

I know you can use the tables in the planning.db to control the altitude of waypoints but things like altitude but control which route and transitions from runway look to be hard coded.

Also is runway 12, which is only 6000 feet. long enough for a C130 to takeoff and land?  The sim uses this runway for GA and military planes in East flow.  


Posted By: VenturaGuy101
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 1:30am
I also have to add is the MVA altitudes available in map 6 correct?  The areas just east of KABQ seem to be too high considering that the departure procedures go through these zones but at lower altitudes than indicated.  This includes the 82 east of the airport and the 87 to the southeast.  Looking at the EOVM map available in map 5 does not show any altitudes close to the MVAs.  Was the flights directed to 300 deg north or 180 south made to avoid MVA alarms and deductions?  Looking at Flightradar24 shows flights taking GRZZZ2 or MNZNO2 going through these areas following the departure procedures at altitudes lower than the MVA.  I am just trying to get a better understanding of how the simulation works and if these are corrected in Build 21?


Posted By: hnorgaar
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 6:30am
(Universal.db)  Shows that it should use the RDRNR TWO

Yes that is correct, but Universal.db shows the flightplan for this route as RDRNR3 ZUN EAGUL6
As working with databases I would think a mismatch between these will make the program assign a logical route and not the one in Universal.db

Just my 2 cents, I know this has been discussed before and there seems to be different opinions regarding this

Henrik


Posted By: ReaperT215
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 11:57am
I am by no means a real world controller, but with my training as a controller on the VATSIM network, the planes can fly a procedure below the MVA. The MVA is the minimum vectoring altitude. This is more for the controllers than the pilots. It is set to tell the controllers not to vector (or turn) planes below this altitude as we as controllers can not physically see the obstacles that we could potentially be turning a plane directly towards. The procedures are charted in a way to avoid obstacles on their own, so if the plane is following the horizontal path and the altitude restrictions published on the procedure, they are quite fine to fly under the MVA. The MVA restricts us as controllers from turning the aircraft below that altitude.

Someone with more knowledge may be able to correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the way I understand it with my training for a virtual air traffic control network. 


Posted By: bill3810
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 12:24pm
As part of our charts package from Jepp I have a Reference chart that allows me to check the lowest altitudes that I can be vectored when under Radar Control.  Anytime atc assigns me an altitude I'll double check with that chart.  If it's lower than what the chart says I won't accept it.  Also need to look at your MOCA and MEA's on route and Grid MORA's off airways.  That's from the pilot perspective.  Also if you are on a procedure you have minimum segment altitudes as well.  From the controller standpoint all I know is what I've studied from THE BOOK and practicing on here.  Bottom Line follow the MVA's and you won't be responsible for CFIT!



Posted By: JimOrlando
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 12:39pm
As a r/w instrument rated pilot who worked closely with controllers in my career as an Airport Operations Manager (KORL), I can attest that Reaper is correct. The procedure plate that the pilot follows will have various altitudes and flight paths to keep clear of obstacles (of which we have very few in Florida). Also, any potential obstacles with their heights (both MSL and AGL) are depicted on the plate so the pilots knows where they are.

He is exactly correct on the meaning of MVA. That is, it is solely for the use of the controller. In most cases a pilot neither knows nor cares what it is or even that it exists. A little "behind the scenes", most TRACONs have "local procedures" that they use to vector departures since it's very common for the MVA to be higher than the airport altitude, meaning when an a/c first departs he is often well below the MVA. For example, off of KGKT (TYS) rwy 10 if you wait until an a/c is above MVA you will get dinged when it enters the 4,800 foot MVA area just east of the airport. (Many a/c will not even make the 3.200 MVA around the airport before hitting the 4,800) While I can't attest to the actual procedure in that case, I turn a/c to either 260 or 360 depending on where they are going.

In the case of an a/c on a departure procedure, the aim is to get him on the procedure as quickly as safety allows. This usually means a vector, or more commonly a "direct", to the first fix of the procedure, then let the pilot fly the procedure at least until above MVA.




Posted By: VenturaGuy101
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 1:05pm
Originally posted by hnorgaar hnorgaar wrote:

(Universal.db)  Shows that it should use the RDRNR TWO

Yes that is correct, but Universal.db shows the flightplan for this route as RDRNR3 ZUN EAGUL6
As working with databases I would think a mismatch between these will make the program assign a logical route and not the one in Universal.db

Just my 2 cents, I know this has been discussed before and there seems to be different opinions regarding this

Henrik

Good catch.  I tried changing the RDRNR3 to RDRNR2 in the Routes table in the Universal.db and test the simulation.  The SW2604 flight still came up with MNZNO2.SJN.  So it appears that the entries in the Routes table in Universal.db is not used.  I guess only Tom or Dave can shed some light but they might not want the knowledge of the inner workings known.

My real world job involves running complex hydrologic models and data collection systems using database files and config files controlled through scripting.  So I enjoy trying to figure out weather changing db entries can change or improve the simulation.


Posted By: VenturaGuy101
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 1:11pm
ReaperT215 and JimOrlando your insight is very helpful.  I was trying to figure out why the aircraft at KABQ is turned 300 degrees on the north and 180 on the south as soon as they are in the air instead of following the departure proceedure of 079 degrees until 5860 and then turn toward the first fix.


Posted By: ReaperT215
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 6:05pm
VenturaGuy101, I have posted a similar question regarding the tower assigned headings with no response yet. For clarification the heading is not given to them in the air, it is given to them by the tower with their takeoff clearance. Instead of instructing them to fly the assigned departure, the tower instructs them after departure fly heading XXX, thus once the aircraft is airborne, they turn to that heading as soon as they see safe and practical. 

With that being said, with my training controlling KEWR airspace on the VATSIM network, we do assign every departure a departure procedure, however it is very uncommon that they will actually fly the procedure to its termination. Normally they get a turn almost immediately upon reaching the MVA. This is due to the complicated airspace encompassing the three major New York area airports (KEWR, KLGA, and KJFK), and the high traffic levels. I have listened to some real world atc for that area and they too normally do not fly the full departure. My thought is that they assign the departure procedure so they know what to expect the pilot to do in case of lost communications. I mention this because it is possible that the local real world procedures for ABQ could be that they assign headings and then departure vectors them to the departure procedure. Not all facilities have the same way of doing things. Like ATL for example, full RNAV procedures from the runway out of the airspace and I think it is very rare if ever that you will get vectored off the procedure or get a short cut due to the high volume of traffic in that area. ABQ on the other hand is very low volume, so they have more ability to be less strict with their procedures and give shortcuts and that kind of thing. 

I too have looked through the .db files and can't find any way to stop the tower from assigning headings vs procedures. I would concur that this is probably hard coded and not user editable.


Posted By: VenturaGuy101
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2018 at 8:09pm
Reaper, I think I remember your post a while back.  It seems that the departure procedure and the tower instruction is hard coded in the files and not found in the db files even though there are entries in the db files,  Only the waypoints seems to be used for altitude control, which some uses have used to fix A80 issues.  With KABQ there are different departure procedures depending if its East or West flow and there are no entries that show west flow.  East uses MNZNO2 while west uses DOOKK2/JETOK2 depending on runway.  



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