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KMIA Approach

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RB9iHsNpy5uD View Drop Down
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    Posted: 21 Feb 2020 at 2:19pm
I am working Miami south approach and final (A+S). Why does south departure (W) send scores of aircraft through my airspace without asking for a point out? I'm not saying departure never requests a point out, it often does, but south departure also routinely sends aircraft through my airspace.
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wheniwasinspace View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wheniwasinspace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2020 at 2:12pm
I've only played north arrivals before. Sat down and did a 30min shift A+S but all aircraft stayed below alt 080 or a PO was requested.
What Flow, Day,Time do you have? I'll make another run on monday and see if I can help you out.


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wheniwasinspace View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wheniwasinspace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2020 at 2:20pm
oh and also... if you have the callsign for a plane that 1W violates your airspace with that would be super!
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RB9iHsNpy5uD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RB9iHsNpy5uD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Feb 2020 at 6:54pm
I should have added this was West flow. I went back to my previous scenario times, but that was no help as I've run different scenarios since I experienced this trouble in Miami.

I tried Friday at 18:11Z and had one flight (TMC 498) violate my airspace (8000-16000) to the west of the airport. Again, I'm fairly sure this wasn't the right simulation time.

I'll work the A+S positions again and report if this issue repeats.

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wheniwasinspace View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wheniwasinspace Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 8:00am
I've only had time to run it for about 30 min testing your friday run. TMC498 was behaving well so probably something that happens intermittent and not directly related to a specific SID that could easily be edited in the database.
I'll run it some more and see if I can figure this one out.

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RB9iHsNpy5uD View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RB9iHsNpy5uD Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25 Feb 2020 at 11:27am
Thanks for looking into this, but please don't waste much of your time. I've been trying to recreate the problems I saw last week when several aircraft were entering my airspace in one hour, but haven't encountered a wide-scale problem like before.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote thegreatgypsy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 07 May 2020 at 10:51pm
There's a good chance that this is a bug or a problem with the controller AI, it happens on the N/D side as well...

But...BUT...

I have seen a MIA Tracon document floating around before (which I'm trying to find again, but I'm having a hard time. I'll edit this comment with the link if I find it) which states that IRL MIA D/W departure controllers are allowed to climb KMIA departures at or above 7000' without coordination if N/S traffic dictates and allows for it. There was even a specific term for doing so, but I don't remember off the top of my head. 

There's a chance that ATCPro AI is actually allowing and doing this (poorly, if that's the case, they should be climbing past 7k only if there's no N traffic), but it once again could just be a bug. In the meantime I'll try to find the link to the doc I saw this in.

EDIT: From what I've found it's called a "Look and Go" procedure, which is similar to a point-out but is a part of what is called prearranged coordination airspace. Still looking for the official doc that shows that Miami does or has done this irl.
Ch. 3-6-7
pg. 672 


Edited by thegreatgypsy - 07 May 2020 at 11:15pm
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RDATC View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote RDATC Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 May 2020 at 6:00pm
You will never find a reference to "look and go" in any FAA document, they are illegal. Whoever they are done all the time in real life. 
RD
FAA ATCS
"Think Twice Before Hesitating"
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