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HILEY STAR (KMIA)

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JimOrlando View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimOrlando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2018 at 3:59pm
OK, it "works" but... let me first say that I've never found myself that busy working just North Approach that I couldn't manually descend a/c, which I prefer anyway. However, the reason this looked good is when I combine sectors things sometimes ramp up and this would be handy. That being said, I find two major problems that make it not worth implementing for now. Maybe if I, or someone else, has time to tweak it in the future it would be worth it. 1) The procedure becomes mandatory. That is, it used to be that the a/c would fly the horizontal portion of the arrival and I just had to manage the vertical. Now, if I don't give the arrival, a/c depart HILEY direct to KMIA. 2) The a/c bust airspace. That is, obviously, unacceptable.

So, I have gone back to the original configuration for now. BTW, you can give the instruction on first contact. In fact, when a/c checked on without stating the ATIS I was able to give "...information <.> is current, Miami altimeter is <..>, resume normal speed, expect runway 8L, descend via the HILEY5 arrival, runway 8L transition." all in one broadcast and it worked fine.
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bill3810 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bill3810 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31 Dec 2018 at 8:26pm
You wouldn't get a descend via clearance on this Arrival Anyway.  The crossing restrictions here are expects and there is only one constraint, the rest are just minimum segment altitudes on the arrival not a crossing altitude.  The expect is just for planning purposes so to keep it more realistic for me I just leave it as is.   However it does reduce the workload a bit especially dealing with AI pilots.

Edited by bill3810 - 31 Dec 2018 at 8:40pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bill3810 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 4:05am
Every time I give these guys descend via they turn off of the arrival and head all the way back to the beginning of the arrival, is there something I can do to fix this.  Happening in ATL now.

EDIT:  So firstly oddly enough Center doesn't have them on the Arrival so first you have to tell them, join the Dirty2 Arrival Rwy8L transition then descend them via with the 8L transition so they stay on the right route and follow the altitudes.  I know some of you have modified it so that the transition is not required, any can help?

Probably will just wait on the next release seems a bit buggy and unpredictable.



Edited by bill3810 - 01 Jan 2019 at 4:32am
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hnorgaar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hnorgaar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 5:15am
That is happening because when you change to 6 for waypoints which are before where they  actually make contact with you. 6 is what tells them to be able to use the descend via and join command. That wasnt a problem with Hiley 5, but is for Sscot2 and others. I have changed that in another version which is now updated on in the dropbox link and have included SSCOT2 as well, redownload this and let me know how this work out. And no to your question, you shouldnt give the join command

Henrik


Edited by hnorgaar - 01 Jan 2019 at 5:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bill3810 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01 Jan 2019 at 5:16pm
Thanks for the information and files, I will give them a try and let you know.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bill3810 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2019 at 2:18am
Another question I see you have included the Dynamic Routes file for Miami.  The next questions which is not associated with the Hiley 5 but I think is in general related is in Atlanta on the Dirty2 arrival.  Aircraft coming from the northwest which are all assigned the Dirty2 half don't follow it and some that do go to the south side of the airport even though they have been assigned a runway that would require them to fly to the north side on the arrival.

Database is unmodified and after all of the 5's the 6's terminate to a runway so this should work but they still turn away and go to first fix of arrival if I don't say join the dirty 2 and i'm not sure why.  I'm not sure why they aren't on the arrival in the first place, they hit the first fix of the arrival in my airspace and fly present heading.

When I assign them the Dirty 2 they fly the arrival but again take the transition for the wrong runway, not sure if this is something in the DB or in the Code of the simulation.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hnorgaar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2019 at 2:40am
Hi again, that have to do with what I tried to explain before, the only way to make them follow 6 is to give the command "descend via" or, but not sure "join", and is probably an error in the game, 5 and 6 is not connected automatically apparently or maybe by choice because of different route for different runways and therefore need the command. Thats why we can make a "fake" 6 for other approaches and make it work with the dynamic file for the verbal commands available.

Henrik


Edited by hnorgaar - 02 Jan 2019 at 2:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bill3810 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2019 at 5:10am
Ok thanks I will tinker with what you did for Miami and try and figure it out with Atlanta, I see others have it working great.  I'm guessing I need to modify the Dynamic file for each session and not give them the option.  Meaning if I"m working 1L (NE Feeder) and vectoring for 8 L i'll only make 2 arrivals available and 1 runway so that might fix it.  Will tinker, thanks again for your help.  Time to play and get this figured out.

Edited by bill3810 - 02 Jan 2019 at 5:11am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bill3810 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2019 at 5:55am
So with the DB stock ATL has 6's for the runways so the descend via works.  However if I assign that to them they turn back to intercept the transition fix way out on the arrival based on their flight plan.  The way around that is this command "direct Dirty, Descend via the Dirty 2" and boom it works.  So the direct cancels the transition and they descend via at that point and stay on route.

Now HAARY is a decision point, depending on the runway assignment West flow they turn south East flow the continue SW.  Before I modified the Dynamic route they always went stupid at harry and turn either south or followed a heading, but with 8L only available they are behaving.  

I also made 9L available in the Dynamic file as a test, but even after I assigned 9L as their approach it still shows 8L in their data tag so i'm missing something here.

I think Andrew mentioned on a video of his that if you give a descend via and no runway transition they will default to the first available arrival runway combination in the dynamic file.  I've tried assigning the "descend via runway zero niner left transition" hoping this would switch them to the other runway but they are not responding to that.

However , at this point it's a much more enjoyable experience and much more realistic.  I flew into Atlanta on and off for 8 years and I don't really remember getting any descend via's but we did shoot the ILS PRM's all the time and usually didn't get a runway assignment until with approach which is pretty normal.  Now that the AI are actually following the route it makes managing a large amount of traffic much easier.

EDIT:  Seem to have made pretty good progress.  Only thing now is when they depart SNEVE on the DIRTY2 with descend via they descend and crash into the ground on their own.  it is a TF and 6 is the type with a track of 275 but they don't maintain 6000 which is what I set SNEVE at, they cross at 6000 but they don't stay, they fly 275 and descend into the ground.


Edited by bill3810 - 02 Jan 2019 at 8:36am
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hnorgaar View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote hnorgaar Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 02 Jan 2019 at 2:08pm
I guess that have to do with arrival runways per the game is 08L, 09R, 10, and departure are 8R and 9L, and therefore wont accept 9L as arrival runway
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