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Freq. Changes and Handoffs

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JoeControler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeControler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Freq. Changes and Handoffs
    Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 6:42am
Couple of questions for someone new to the sim:

1. Aside from Center hand-off how do you determine where to move the AC to the next controller. I know what freq. to give but not when.

2. I hand off to Center, they accept but when I give the freq. I get dinged for freq change before hand off.

Any help would be most appriciated.

Great sim btw, lots of major bugs but I love the subject and the work you have done.

Thanks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimOrlando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 9:09am
The easiest way to determine when to initiate a handoff is to set automatic handoffs on in the setup and then observe when the AI does it. Then once you're comfortable with it, you can turn it off. In general it should be done when the a/c is either within 10 miles or 4 minutes of leaving your sector laterally (although it seems that the sim will accept a little larger margin on both) or within 2000 feet of leaving your sector vertically (although, again, the sim will accept well before that but if you hand off too soon it will often try to give it back to you).
 
The ding for no frequency change before handoff usually happens when you handoff to the wrong sector (give the wrong frequency). This happens often at ABQ when you just type "C" to handoff a/c going north. Often if the a/c is still in the bounds of C17 that is the sector the computer will choose. Then when you make the proper handoff to C16 you get dinged. I handle this the simple way, by always forcing the sector (typing "C16" instead of "C" for example).
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JoeControler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeControler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 11:46am
Thank you sir, that is helpful.

I am trying to avoid auto-handoffs but worth using and observing as you mentioned.

Wonder if there is any possibility of getting sector boundary and freq. maps in the manual. That is one of the few neg. I have with the sim. The documentation is rather limited for such a complex subject. The online tutorials are great!

Then again could be just a bit cumbersome to download a 1 Terabyte file to cover everything RL controllers need to know.

Thanks again for the quick reply, appreciate it.


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JimOrlando View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JimOrlando Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21 Jul 2018 at 6:40pm

The easiest path to get proficient is: 1) Watch all the tutorials. 2) Start easy with either TYS or ABQ controlling just one sector (E or W at TYS, N or S at ABQ). Have the airspace highlighted and auto handoff on. For traffic, I leave all at 100% and if I want an easy shift I just pick a time when traffic is lighter. 3) Once comfortable, combine both sides of whichever you are working. Then as you become more comfortable you can un-highlight the airspace (I think it looks better) and turn off auto handoffs. 4) Just keep at it. Nothing can replace practice.

 
Also, whenever you want to try a new sector, it always helps to observe it for a while. (I do a minimum of 30 minutes) The AI gets away with a few things that you will get dinged for, but it's still the best way to start learning a sector. And again, with a new sector, airspace highlighted and auto handoff on.
 
Another trick, if something throws you and you really can't figure out how to handle it, close out and come back with the same sector/time and the AI controlling to see how it handles it.
 
And remember the three most important keys to controlling, scan, scan, scan!
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Salad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Salad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 22 Jul 2018 at 9:03pm
Hi Joe,

Have you had a play about with the green buttons regarding sector boundaries?
Under Maps have a look through the various options (you can do this whilst the sim is on pause). You should have a button ZSEC (I think; going off memory here). It takes a while to figure which maps are relevant/useful for what you are controlling. Once you do sort them out you can get your sector humming along very nicely.

Graham
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeControler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 4:35am
Thanks Salad, I do have the Center Sectors up and know where and how to hand off to them. These are explained very well in the videos training.

What is not explained and displayed (that I know of) are where the hand off boundaries are for the different App. and Dep.

The Freq. List gives you who you need to give them to but nothing show where that transaction needs to take place.

Observing the siim does allow you to, over time, to determine these things but it is frustrating to have a very good session going only to have a hand off ding because you did not happen to have seen that one before or forgot where the line is crossed.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Sath_99 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 6:05am
You can also take a look at this topic, full of videos:

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Salad View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Salad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23 Jul 2018 at 7:05pm
I see your point Joe. For me it came down to trial and error. It does take a long time to get the hang of the various areas. I have had the sim for two years, pretty much concentrated on MIA and still get dinged at times because I can't figure out who they were meant to go to. Having said that working the various positions within a big facility helps a lot rather than working the same position all the time.

I know MIA has a few airspace charts also in the support area of the website, I don't recall if the other sectors are there or not though.

Graham


Edited by Salad - 23 Jul 2018 at 7:06pm
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JoeControler View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JoeControler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 29 Jul 2018 at 10:34am
Sorry to bother but can you answer a question for me.

I accept a arrival, give him the expected runway, and command to descend via the xx arrival.

He reads everything back correctly including the arrival but proceeds to go off on some tangent not even remotely following the STAR. What am I missing or not doing correctly? I have tried giving before and after entering my actual airspace.

This is at ALT, BTW.

Just watching has helped a lot, I am now starting to get the hang of the flow. Thanks.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Elusive Napkin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30 Jul 2018 at 9:21am
It’s a bug. For some reason, when the aircraft are on a STAR that has runway dependent routing, the STAR will terminate when you give the “expect runway” command.

However, in ATL if you say “Decend via DIRTY2 arrival, runway 27L transition”, the aircraft will continue to follow the STAR and descend. This is less effective on the Southeast and Southwest arrival gates.
FAA ATPL | B757/767 | B744
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