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Approach Procedures - ABQ

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MarkHargrove View Drop Down
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    Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 7:36pm
I'm more than a little confused about the ILS Rwy 08 approach map in the sim vs. the real-life approach -- they game version isn't even vaguely correct.

The real-world approach is here:  http://155.178.201.160/d-tpp/1601/00012IL8.PDF

The in-game version shows this map:



Which looks nothing like the correct ILS Rwy 08 for ABQ.  Indeed, not only does this not even resemble what an ILS approach procedure would look like, some of the fixes shown on the map don't even exist in the real world (FOLXU, JOLKI, HOROG) -- at least, not in any of the airspace fix databases I checkec. Finally, SUPOT (which is a least a real airspace fix) is NOT the outer marker for the approach -- that's a fixed called JILAB which doesn't even appear in the game.

Where did this in-game procedure come from? 

Although I'm fairly pleased with the game so far, this kind of thing drives me crazy.  Yeah, it's a pain in the ass to get all of the procedures in, but why just make them up when they're published?  
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mlovetto View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlovetto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 9:41pm
The procedures change all the time. This is probably an older procedure in game.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlovetto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 9:42pm
I've found that a lot of the approaches are actually the same as in real world. Check the ABQ RNAV 26 approaches when you're in game.
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MarkHargrove View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkHargrove Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 09 Jan 2016 at 10:05pm
Indeed, I think that most (or even all; I've haven't looked at them all carefully yet) of the other approaches are correct.  This just happened to be the first one I looked at when starting to work arrivals and I couldn't understand what I was seeing when comparing to the real thing.

-M.
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scr View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 11:48am
In an effort to make ATCpro as realistic as possible, the team obtained the actual video map data used at the tracons supported in the sim. As you might expect, the procurement process through FAA took some time and several instrument approaches, and the corresponding video maps, had changed before ATCpro was published.  Most approaches showed little updating during that time, but the ABQ ILS was one that did change considerably. 

In real life, each tracon facility has at least one procedures specialist whose primary function is to maintain operational documents and video maps, etc... with updated information. They struggle with all of these changes. We hope that this logistical issue will not detract greatly from your enjoyment of this simulation. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MarkHargrove Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 2:10pm
Originally posted by scr scr wrote:

In an effort to make ATCpro as realistic as possible, the team obtained the actual video map data used at the tracons supported in the sim. As you might expect, the procurement process through FAA took some time and several instrument approaches, and the corresponding video maps, had changed before ATCpro was published.  Most approaches showed little updating during that time, but the ABQ ILS was one that did change considerably. 

In real life, each tracon facility has at least one procedures specialist whose primary function is to maintain operational documents and video maps, etc... with updated information. They struggle with all of these changes. We hope that this logistical issue will not detract greatly from your enjoyment of this simulation. 

So this totally makes sense, but I don't know how to direct inbound pilots to use the approach as depicted.  The mismatch between the sim and the real-world means I don't know what the initial approach fixes (IAF) are for that particular (ABQ ILS Rwy 8) approach.

Am I expecting something from the sim that isn't there?  Will the AI planes fly a "full" approach if given a clearance for it when inbound to an IAF?    --or do all approaches require vectors in the sim?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlovetto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 2:58pm
I've tried to give a full ILS approach clearance i.e "cleared direct <fix>, maintain <alt> until <fix>, cleared ILS runway 8". They just go to the initial and fly through it and don't join the approach. It's also hit and miss with the RNAV appchs doing this too.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote scr Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 3:35pm
Thank you both for the input on this situation.  Would you please utilize visual approaches or ILS to runway 03 for now.  I need to discuss this issue with the team,  and will post more direction as soon as possible. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote mlovetto Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10 Jan 2016 at 3:55pm
I can give an ILS clearance to runway 8 fine. I'm just saying that a full approach doesn't work. Like flying an arc or flying a feeder path to the FAF. :-). I hope that clears up the topic.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Tom@FlagMountain Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 11 Jan 2016 at 7:07pm
We are aware that the ILS map for rwy 8 is out of date.  Didn't change for 15+ years, then they changed it about 6 mos after we requested the facility info.  Grrrrr.  Will get this fixed.
 
Regards
 
Tom
Tom Murdock
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